aruan: (Default)
Eva ([personal profile] aruan) wrote2003-02-07 12:05 pm

another one for the Ask And You Shall Receive file

The second season of Showtime's brilliantly honest series Queer As Folk is now available for pre-order on amazon.com. I haven't had a chance to see more than a couple of episodes owing to the lamentable lack of cable in the dorms, but it's definitely on the Wish List.

[identity profile] giddyupnow.livejournal.com 2003-02-07 12:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I suspected they might go a different route, given time. Which would involve development of secondary characters and the like. And for what it's worth, I found the lesbians in the US version much more adorable.

Much like in Jules' case, though, I do not have cable (or even much in the way of normal television reception) and wasn't in a particular hurry, since I've never been into television shows as much as I have been in literary and film fandoms. Maybe it's something to do with attention span ;-)

Also, I admit to having even more qualms upon hearing that it was a cable show, if only because that meant that it might be predisposed to being more "shocking" in subject matter (which made my reaction upon first seeing the opening credits that much more dismal) at the expense of sensitivity and accuracy. I mean, I suppose the fact that they can say the show (and this applies to the UK miniseries as well) is about a certain subculture at all emphasizes the "alien" aspects of it more than it does integration -- it almost gains this "National Geographic takes you inside the world of Gay People!" feel which just left me feeling kind of dirty. An ideal show (ha!) would have no more emphasis on sexuality than it would on a character being a feminist or an ecologist or a man/woman. (Watch me wave my trendy deconstructionalist flag! Whoot!) But, being sensible enough about reality, the general population, and the politics and workings of the entertainment industry (which, as a whole, can never be accused of being anti-queer. *snerk*), I suppose exposure comes first.

And hey, while I'm on the subject? (And I do apologize for subjecting you to this, but I as well can't seem to shut up on this stuff :-) I have to know and this will play a large part in the respect that I'm willing to give to the show in the future... how does the show treat the subject of queers of color? Because the largest gay communities and movements in recent history have been as dominated by the assumption of white middle class values as any other part of the country (and western world, possibly), and if the show wants to do a good job of representing, I'd appreciate their efforts in reaching the minorities of the minorities as well. Just a thought.
crazybutsound: (Default)

[personal profile] crazybutsound 2003-02-07 01:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, boy. We are so abusing Jules' lj for this... but I couldn't not answer this... because meh. Good point.

It is unfortunately true that although talking about one minority, the two shows are mostly ignoring all other minorities. So for that, QAF isn't very good. Every single important character is white. And now that you've mentioned it, I can't remember noticing colored people anywhere on the shows. So no reaching the minorities of the minorities. :-(

I am watching it with the eyes of a French person, though, and it's undeniable that even though important, race issues are not treated the same, here. So this aspect of the show did not strike me as lacking. But now that you've pointed it out to me... mmmm...

As for shocking... well, the show certainly is. Of course, it built a lot of its reputation on outrageous sex scenes. But it's far from being porn, and it's mostly within the story lines and related to the plot, so... I actually enjoy that aspect. *giggles*

An ideal show (ha!) would have no more emphasis on sexuality than it would on a character being a feminist or an ecologist or a man/woman.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. Because then, an ideal show would be boring. Either that, or we would be living in a world where those things didn't make a difference, and we all lived happily together despite our differences. Sadly, that's not true. So I think a good show needs to dwell on something if they want to make things move. They need to have a purpose, a message, or really, what would be the point?

No, to me, a good show (ha! as you so justly said, lol) would certainly put emphasis on one aspect of things. One group of people, one culture... but then, would try and broach every single aspect of that chosen subject. Which as you so justly pointed out, isn't the case for QAF. To be ideal, they'd have to show a wider range of gay individuals from all races and classes, etc... and not just purely white queers.

But you know, I still love it, lol. I still enjoy the Justin/Brian dynamics, still love Michael, still adore Emmett to death. That show's got numerous flaws, but I like it because it brings characters that come alive through moving interpretation. I like that.

That said, I might look back on it in a few years and cringe, lol.

[identity profile] giddyupnow.livejournal.com 2003-02-16 02:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, boy. We are so abusing Jules' lj for this

We do it because we love her ;-)

I am watching it with the eyes of a French person, though, and it's undeniable that even though important, race issues are not treated the same, here.

True, and I respect that. And the fact that the geographical as well as city/country distinctions comes into play on what people see and recognize. And in what is actually presented in a show that wishes to faithfully show a population's distribution. But there would still be the class representation to be considered even if race weren't an issue, wouldn't there?

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. Because then, an ideal show would be boring.

*g* That's my fault, I didn't define that well enough, in my agenda-advancing frenzy. I beg your pardon :-) Heh. I meant an ideal show that wants to be socially conscious, not necessarily one that wants good story-telling. And in the sense that ideals are never reachable, but they still serve a purpose. Because, yeah, I realize that it's the conflict which creates the drama. But one needs to envision the ideal show, then recognize the distance between that and where you are at before being able to straddle the middle ground and address the problems, in storytelling terms. What's currently happening in media is that they overlook it altogether. I fail to see any breadth or vision. But it does perfectly well for what it is doing... I just wish they would make a point of telling people that they are *only* representing that small portion.

That said, I might look back on it in a few years and cringe, lol.

*s* I hope not. Because, for what it's worth, I *do* think it does what it can, in the environment created by today's society and the demands of entertainment. Thanks for the response!

[identity profile] gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com 2003-02-07 02:48 pm (UTC)(link)
it almost gains this "National Geographic takes you inside the world of Gay People!" feel which just left me feeling kind of dirty. Bwah! That's one very funny way of putting it. I see what you mean, but QAF has always been about their lives, not the fact of their sexual orientation. These are people, genuine personalities who deal despite their sexuality in a world that manages to make it an issue somehow anyway. But within the queer community itself, it's not an issue. Between each other, it's not an issue. And the show's more that than the "outside world" anyway.

For reasons aforementioned, the following comments are based purely on the first season of the show.

As far as the aspects of gay culture and lifestyle that are specifically explored, the show looks at them as matter-of-factly as it does its minorities. While certainly not going out of its way to address them by any stretch of the imagination, I recall Brian bringing home both black and Asian lovers. Babylon seems very embracing of attractive men, whatever their ethnicity. However, it should be noted that Brian's preferences have one parameter, and that's that they're male. And the other characters are pretty much too wrapped up in themselves, each other, or just Brian. So QAF is definitely lacking in that aspect, but retains frankness and compassion for the subject matter it does take on.

[identity profile] giddyupnow.livejournal.com 2003-02-16 02:02 pm (UTC)(link)
*nods* I'm fond of the first version because it was just... sweet and fluffy. I'm willing to give the series a chance because they *would* get more time to explore issues. On the subject of queer people of color, though, I must admit I feel very strongly and wish that they would address it in closer detail. However, I also realize that since it is essentially a soap opera, it is not necessary for it to take on social issues. However again, because it is considered "groundbreaking" in terms of exposure to the public of queer lifestyles, it would be an ideal medium for presenting issues that really need to be seen.

Objective rant to follow, I'm not aiming particularly at you or QAF, so much as trying to sort out my own thoughts on just how much responsibility the entertainment industry has when they're the first (or most powerful) on a scene.

I think the problem with the characters, not so much as characters themselves but in the way they're presented, is that they *are* too wrapped up in themselves. In that way where the "gay issue" is brought to the fore, yes, but what's unvoiced is that it's the gay *white middle-class* issue. Most high-profile gay communities (WeHo, Castro, and Chelsea spring to mind) are economically based on money and businesses founded by white middle-class gay men and mostly cater to that subset. One often doesn't find much in the way of the working class and people of color except on the outskirts, usually working the more illicit side of things, because there *is* this unvoiced feeling that they're not as acceptable. Just like when you go to many "support group" meetings and there's a bunch of white people sitting around wondering on occasion "gee, why don't we have more diversity?", but then never go on to consider or implement any ways to change that. There *is* segregation that goes on -- there are specific bars that tend to cater to whites and ones that appeal to non-whites... there is a bit of cross-over and more in recent years, but there is still a huge aesthetic and mental gulf between them. A lot of times people like to put all of them under the umbrella term of "queer" and figure they should all work together, but the truth is that even within the group, there will be a tendency to separate. Because little attempt (once again, always changing these days, so there's hope) is made to understand the differences associated with being an individual embodying the intersection of several minority categories, resolution and support of eachother on a higher group level is not really possible. So really, a show or a book or a movement can't purport to be about the "queer community" until they give equal time to all its facets, starting on the outskirts and including those comfortable in the middle by default. One can hardly call picturing a few extras in a crowd or an occasional one-night stand equal representation.

But yeah, I'm sure the show does well for the little slice of the population it *does* choose to take on. Which, unfortunately, happens to be the most marketable and the one least in need (if one can make such distinctions, since I understand that we're still talking fringe here) of publicity.