This one's for the authors.
Jul. 7th, 2004 10:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
aruanSo I'm starting in on ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
bettyp's predictably wonderful secondary character-based newest, and not two sections into it, my brain is hijacked.
Carlos and JC are talking in the loft, and while the characterization of JC is consistently my biggest point of contention withbettyp's writing, her secondary characters (with Trace being the happiest example) are possibly my biggest point of enjoyment. She writes them as many of the rest of the writing community write the boys - with empathy and compassion, obligingly and forgivingly. The antipathy toward the "secondary characters" in their lives shocks me sometimes, especially when some of those same people make them so obviously happy.
Anyhow, Carlos responds to a question of JC's, and I'd link the story if anything specific was relevant but it isn't, and I loved what he said so much, I felt warm and happy and glad for JC, that he had someone like that in his life. Until I realized, wait, that's right, this is only fic.
Oh, I know just how that sounded. Go with me.
I tend to enjoy fic that meshes with my conceptions of the boys. Duh. Does anyone go in tabula rasa? I'd venture with almost utmost certainty that the answer is no. Spending any amount of time in whatever part of any fandom leaves a person colored by a thousand and one things that add up to that person's "know" of the characters.
Let's take a moment to define that operative term "know" as the sum total of all one's personal beliefs, experiences, conceptions, notions, perceptions, etcetera ad nauseam of a person based on the sum total of their foundations, which include any and all but are not limited to fanfiction, others' firsthand accounts, biases, photographs, personal encounters, etc.
I saved a chunk of a postbettyp herself once made in response to some kerfuffle or another that I found interesting:
But I do, some of the time, love them. While I'm writing about them, I do, because I write them in a certain way, a little more thoughtful than they probably are, a little more genuine, a little more confused. I write them trying harder to get through life than I think they really are. Even when I'm feeling the Gritty Realism (tm), I romanticize their problems, their struggles, to give them greater weight and depth than just some fucking rich kid who's all woe is me, my life is so hard. I do that because I don't want to read about their bloated, competitive, soulless, consumptive, defensive little lives. I want, in one sense or another, a romance, a story about one or another kind of love.
And I'm not saying that's totally untrue, or that they're incapable of love or whatever. I'm saying that I write the way I write because it produces a story that I like and not becasue I think it mimics reality exactly... [ETA: full post here]
I don't agree because it's not my method or logic, but I see how that philosophy and approach would make for a good experience for the writer and a more satisfying story for everyone. However, I read fic that is feasible in the way in which I "know" the boys to be, good, bad, and in-between. Fair enough. It doesn't mean I don't read anything that challenges that - by all means, turn my world upside-down, make me see them from forty-seven degrees to the left of the way I'd expect. Make me see something new or another way of looking at something I already "know" about a particular character.
But while I can ignore characterizations I don't like or that don't jibe with the boys the way I "know" them, there's no refuting canon. Of course there is more than one perspective, more than one take on a situation, more than one way to interpret any given action and more than one conclusion to take away from it, but we're not having the there is no reality discussion right now. My point is, I enjoy fic that feels "real", and given my "know" of Carlos, I can't see him (or rather, hear him) saying and doing what he did in that scene.
Now, I harbor no antipathy toward the man. No, really. My bottom line is the boys' happiness, and if Carlos makes JC happy, which (to me) he obviously does, then the rest doesn't matter. It's just that the Carlos I "know" wouldn't say that. And I suspect this will influence my enjoyment of the story, because I so badly want to be able to believe the character Betty is doing such a great job of writing. And it makes me want to not have amassed the "know" I have in regard to Carlos that, to me, refute his ability to be the way Betty wrote him.
This is the danger of Real Person Fic. They're real people, which is great and not so much in the same. We don't just see them in one setting, we don't just hear about them from a set group of people, we don't just know them through carefully scripted shows or movies. We see these boys at charity events and cafes and airports and clubs, not just onstage. We hear about them from fellow fans, critics, groupies, roadies, managers, parents, and reporters, not just the writers who created them or the actors who play them. They do things we don't expect and say things that jar us, stuff that we'd otherwise cry "Out of character!" about and run to the nearest keyboard to find out which new writer to curse for it.
I'd venture that asking whether you'd like to meet one or more of them given the chance to whatever extent, whether it's just seeing them in concert or getting to sit down for afternoon tea, is mostly absurd. Though there are people who would say no, most of us would jump at the chance.
But then, moments like this make me think. I want to believe Betty's Carlos. I like hers better than the sum total of my "know" of the real one. But that isn't strong enough of an override not to interfere with my enjoyment. On the whole, I've been very lucky in my encounters with the boys, as they've been attentive, obliging, and gracious. But it didn't necessarily have to happen that way. A lot of celebrities aren't as accomodating to their fans. And there are people who have had less than satisfying experiences with the boys, too. Would those things influence a writer who incorporates them into his/her fic? I'd say doubtlessly, whether that means anything from changing the characterization to not writing them anymore at all.
Which, finally, brings me to my question: Writers, if you had the chance to meet your characters, as we are fortunate to have the opportunity to do in pop fandom, would you, even if it meant it would change your "know" of that character unfavorably? Or do you see them colored not just by your "know" but also an affection, whatever that may be, that you have for them, that exists despite whatever flaws they may have? Or do you not desire an encounter with them at all precisely because it would mess with your "know" of your character?
It's so late here. Not really, it just feels that way.halimede and her hubby have been wonderful hosts, but tomorrow will see me on a train not to Munich, but Paris, where I will curl up in familiar haunts and take a more low-key approach to globetrotting until my flight home on the 14th.
bettyp's predictably wonderful secondary character-based newest, and not two sections into it, my brain is hijacked.Carlos and JC are talking in the loft, and while the characterization of JC is consistently my biggest point of contention with
bettyp's writing, her secondary characters (with Trace being the happiest example) are possibly my biggest point of enjoyment. She writes them as many of the rest of the writing community write the boys - with empathy and compassion, obligingly and forgivingly. The antipathy toward the "secondary characters" in their lives shocks me sometimes, especially when some of those same people make them so obviously happy.Anyhow, Carlos responds to a question of JC's, and I'd link the story if anything specific was relevant but it isn't, and I loved what he said so much, I felt warm and happy and glad for JC, that he had someone like that in his life. Until I realized, wait, that's right, this is only fic.
Oh, I know just how that sounded. Go with me.
I tend to enjoy fic that meshes with my conceptions of the boys. Duh. Does anyone go in tabula rasa? I'd venture with almost utmost certainty that the answer is no. Spending any amount of time in whatever part of any fandom leaves a person colored by a thousand and one things that add up to that person's "know" of the characters.
Let's take a moment to define that operative term "know" as the sum total of all one's personal beliefs, experiences, conceptions, notions, perceptions, etcetera ad nauseam of a person based on the sum total of their foundations, which include any and all but are not limited to fanfiction, others' firsthand accounts, biases, photographs, personal encounters, etc.
I saved a chunk of a post
bettyp herself once made in response to some kerfuffle or another that I found interesting:But I do, some of the time, love them. While I'm writing about them, I do, because I write them in a certain way, a little more thoughtful than they probably are, a little more genuine, a little more confused. I write them trying harder to get through life than I think they really are. Even when I'm feeling the Gritty Realism (tm), I romanticize their problems, their struggles, to give them greater weight and depth than just some fucking rich kid who's all woe is me, my life is so hard. I do that because I don't want to read about their bloated, competitive, soulless, consumptive, defensive little lives. I want, in one sense or another, a romance, a story about one or another kind of love.
And I'm not saying that's totally untrue, or that they're incapable of love or whatever. I'm saying that I write the way I write because it produces a story that I like and not becasue I think it mimics reality exactly... [ETA: full post here]
I don't agree because it's not my method or logic, but I see how that philosophy and approach would make for a good experience for the writer and a more satisfying story for everyone. However, I read fic that is feasible in the way in which I "know" the boys to be, good, bad, and in-between. Fair enough. It doesn't mean I don't read anything that challenges that - by all means, turn my world upside-down, make me see them from forty-seven degrees to the left of the way I'd expect. Make me see something new or another way of looking at something I already "know" about a particular character.
But while I can ignore characterizations I don't like or that don't jibe with the boys the way I "know" them, there's no refuting canon. Of course there is more than one perspective, more than one take on a situation, more than one way to interpret any given action and more than one conclusion to take away from it, but we're not having the there is no reality discussion right now. My point is, I enjoy fic that feels "real", and given my "know" of Carlos, I can't see him (or rather, hear him) saying and doing what he did in that scene.
Now, I harbor no antipathy toward the man. No, really. My bottom line is the boys' happiness, and if Carlos makes JC happy, which (to me) he obviously does, then the rest doesn't matter. It's just that the Carlos I "know" wouldn't say that. And I suspect this will influence my enjoyment of the story, because I so badly want to be able to believe the character Betty is doing such a great job of writing. And it makes me want to not have amassed the "know" I have in regard to Carlos that, to me, refute his ability to be the way Betty wrote him.
This is the danger of Real Person Fic. They're real people, which is great and not so much in the same. We don't just see them in one setting, we don't just hear about them from a set group of people, we don't just know them through carefully scripted shows or movies. We see these boys at charity events and cafes and airports and clubs, not just onstage. We hear about them from fellow fans, critics, groupies, roadies, managers, parents, and reporters, not just the writers who created them or the actors who play them. They do things we don't expect and say things that jar us, stuff that we'd otherwise cry "Out of character!" about and run to the nearest keyboard to find out which new writer to curse for it.
I'd venture that asking whether you'd like to meet one or more of them given the chance to whatever extent, whether it's just seeing them in concert or getting to sit down for afternoon tea, is mostly absurd. Though there are people who would say no, most of us would jump at the chance.
But then, moments like this make me think. I want to believe Betty's Carlos. I like hers better than the sum total of my "know" of the real one. But that isn't strong enough of an override not to interfere with my enjoyment. On the whole, I've been very lucky in my encounters with the boys, as they've been attentive, obliging, and gracious. But it didn't necessarily have to happen that way. A lot of celebrities aren't as accomodating to their fans. And there are people who have had less than satisfying experiences with the boys, too. Would those things influence a writer who incorporates them into his/her fic? I'd say doubtlessly, whether that means anything from changing the characterization to not writing them anymore at all.
Which, finally, brings me to my question: Writers, if you had the chance to meet your characters, as we are fortunate to have the opportunity to do in pop fandom, would you, even if it meant it would change your "know" of that character unfavorably? Or do you see them colored not just by your "know" but also an affection, whatever that may be, that you have for them, that exists despite whatever flaws they may have? Or do you not desire an encounter with them at all precisely because it would mess with your "know" of your character?
It's so late here. Not really, it just feels that way.
halimede and her hubby have been wonderful hosts, but tomorrow will see me on a train not to Munich, but Paris, where I will curl up in familiar haunts and take a more low-key approach to globetrotting until my flight home on the 14th.
