Oh, for the love of...

[aruan]

What good are primers if they leave out key information? Like, oh, did Kirk and Spock know each other before working together on the Enterprise? I'm under the impression Kirk assembled the crew himself, but episode guides would have me believe Kirk's best buddy was that Mitchell character who went crazy during their first warp jump. So, to anyone in the know, to what extent, if any, did Kirk and Spock know each other before working together, and how would you characterize their relationship early on?

Comments

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

Spock was the science officer aboard the Enterprise under Capt. Christopher Pike

Spock stayed with the Enterprise and was selected by Kirk to be his First Officer when Kirk took command of the Enterprise.

Pike returned to Earth for a teaching position with the Academy. Later in life, as a fleet captain aboard the training ship U.S.S. Republic, Pike suffered massive radiation damage after saving several cadets when a baffle plate ruptured in the ship's reactor. After this Spock kidnaps Pike and hijacks the Enterprise in order to return him to a planet where he can live out his life as though he was still healthy.

Lt. Gary Mitchell was a Helm officer aboard the Enterprise under Kirk. He was a close friend of Kirk, but never a captain himself.

Kirk killed Mitchell when Mitchell went mad after transforming into a god-like entity on stardate 1312.4

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Aah, finally some answers. Thank you for all that. The episode guides I read didn't even mention Kirk killing Mitchell, so that's an important point. Should've known to check out the official site, which I did but only to look at the character histories. Also, nobody mentioned there being a thirteen-year gap between The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before. And not even the official site mentions Spock's theft of the Enterprise after Pike is injured. Does Kirk take over right after that happens? And if Kirk selected Spock to be his First Officer, that would imply they were already acquainted with each other beyond their professional careers, no?

Many thanks,
-Jules, slowly but surely going mad without her DVDs

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

I don't think Kirk and Spock knew each other for long before Kirk took command of the Enterprise.

Kirk entered the Academy about 2 years before spock in 2250. Kirk left the academy for a post as a cadet on the Republic in his first year, moving to the Faragut 4 years later.
He stayed on the Faragut until his promotion to Captain and his assignment to the Enterprise in 2264.

Spock entered the Academy in 2252 and was posted to the Enterprise in his first year. Spock stayed with this one ship throughout his career.

as such the chances of the two of them meeting before Kirk became Captain of the enterprise is very small. Though will undoubtedly have heard of each other.
Spock being the first and only Vulcan to ever enter StarFleet and Kirk being the only cadet ever winning the 'Kobayashi Maru' scenario.

By the time that Kirk took Command of the enterprise in 2264 Spock would be the 'logical choice' for first officer. He offsets Kirks emotional decision making with a strong sense of logic, and is very familiar with everything on the ship, having served on it for the past 12 years. Also he's flagged to soon receive a promotion to commander, a position which normally means one is in the running for captaincy or for a post in the high command.

Ass a seperate point. Starfleet is a military organisation. Most Military establishments are not prone to nepotistic assignments to posts. Starfleet is at that time is still fairly meritocritous. Spock deserved his position as XO of the Enterprise. The fact that they worked well together was not planned beforehand, but rather did mean the Enterprise is one of the few ships to return (mostly) intact after it's first 5 year mission.
That I think is the true miracle of Kirk & Spock.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

You, my friend, are beyond fantastic. Thank you for all that. I looked at the timelines, too, and read the bios but there were some details they just didn't clear up explicitly. I could've assumed/derived them from the timeline, but thanks for spelling it out. Wouldn't want to get my facts wrong from the start.

Ooh, what a great detail about Spock being the first and only Vulcan in Starfleet. I know the decision caused a rift with his dad, but what a feat. And yes, it would absolutely make sense to make him first officer of the Enterprise once Kirk took command, for all your reasons and also because, well, no one knows the Enterprise better.

Also, since you'd know the answer, what is the difference in duty between a Commander and Captain? Obviously the latter is a higher rank, but you'd think both of their job descriptions would be to... command.

Can I now squee about the fact that once their paths crossed, besides being a working partnership destined to become Starfleet legend, they only ever partook of Starfleet business together? Because I am, quite loudly.

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

The difference between a commander and a captain in the star trek universe is the fact that a captain commands a ship.

In todays military we have the rank of captain, and the position of captain.
To avoid problems with this the navy moved up the rank of captain. Also in todays navy the Size of ships and thus their crews varies enough that a ship's captain can be someone from the rank of Lieutenant to the rank of well... Captain actually, only here the Captain is ranked above a commander, which in turn about equals a Colonel.

This is comparable with the fact that 'Commodore Worf' and not 'Captain Worf' commands a tiny star-ship when he is stationed at DS9. Regardless of this the corewct title for the senior officer in charge of a ship is still captain. This is a mark of respect, the same way that a Lt.Colonel is allways called a colonel.

Just to confuse matters, the name of the rank commander is actually a bastardisation of the 16th century Dutch rank Commandeur, which is equal in rank to the brittish, and thus american Comodore. ^_^

Can I now squee about the fact that once their paths crossed, besides being a working partnership destined to become Starfleet legend, they only ever partook of Starfleet business together? Because I am, quite loudly.

In the movies it has been established that later in live they spend their holidays together. This would not be unnatural earlier i a carreer, as it is actually quite common in todays navy for officers to spend their shoretime together. Besides being practical, as they have the same term of shore-leave. There is the added fact that a ship-board position sets one appart from those living ashore. It's a form of culture clash. banding together in small groups is a type of security blanket.

Also you can be sure that if you get in trouble (drunk, legal or otherwise), someone close to you can meke sure that you return to your ship in time.

P.S. Don't forget that most ships in the early star-trek univers are a type of capital ships, there's not many smaller ships.
In fact a Star Trek captain is technically lower in rank than a Starbase commander, who commands an entire section of space. But practically the influence of the Captain is much larger. A nice example of this you can see in the original series 'Trouble with tribbles' (and as counterpart the DS9 ep. 'Trials and tribulations').

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

Uhm...
Sorry for the typos.

I was in a bit of a hurry this morning.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Personally, people who can keep Commodore and Commander straight first thing out of bed need not apologize for a few minor infarctions of spelling.

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

Well you know, Commodore Worf would be interesting.
I wonder what Worf would do with a fleet of ships...

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I'd speculate with you, but about a month ago, I couldn't have even told you how many spinoff series there've been, much less the ranks of its characters.

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

Uhm,
Some of the more disturbing typos corrected:
'Commodore Worf' -> 'Commander Worf' '
'capital ships' -> Capitol ships
earlier i a carreer -> earlier in a career

Disclaimer: most of this is from memory (what can I say, it's Trivia, I'll remember it).

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I'm going to assume that by "capitol ships" you mean the larger-tending ones in the fleet...?

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

Yes Battleships. Think of the Missouri in the US nave.
Big ships with huge guns.
Until DS9 I've never seen any mention of smaller vessels (think destroyers or escorts) in Starfleet. Nor any mention of fleets.
Every ship has the firepower of s fleet in itself, much like the Tirpitz and the Bismark on WWII.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Interesting that Captain can be a title as well as a rank, i.e. Worf.

They took their holidays together later in life. I have no words for how intensely happy that makes me. I mean, it's natural of course, given both their relative lack of family and that they'd served together for so long, but also, they're friends and it's really just a very beautiful thing all on its own.

Thanks again for the breakdown. Assimilating new canon is always so much fun.

[science-vixen.livejournal.com]

You're welcome ^^

[silentfire.livejournal.com]

omg, look how cute and dorky you're being! i'm glad that you're enjoying yourself, as well as broadening your fannish horizons ;)

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Does that mean you don't know the answer? *pout* Neeeeeed to knooooow. Or you know, I'll just post my little project with insufficient background, but I'd rather not.