GIP plus $0.02

[aruan]

walkingshadow is a good friend to me and lo, there were Rodney McKay icons in my mailbox today. I've decided that if McKay were to own T-shirts with himself on them, this would definitely be on the laundry pile, soft and worn and frayed at its hems.

So I figure, what better way to break it in than with a good rant.

Speaking of icons, something that really grinds my gears: tiny text. I've discussed this with Miranda, who expends considerable time and sanity making them, and she explained it as a design element, the aesthetic pleasure of the inconsistent line, and that the text for most people either doesn't mean anything or isn't even words.

I still don't like it. What's the point of text if it can't be read? She mentioned Chinese characters on T-shirts having the same effect in that they're not meant to be understood. But mostly, I see tiny text like some stories I've read that are written well and have good premises but are unintelligible because there's an impossible amount of reading between the lines and psychic ability involved in discrening what it's trying to get across. It becomes more frustrating than anything else. I get the element of intrigue and making the consumer work for the product, I do, but what has been accomplished when the point is lost on the majority of the audience? And in the case of tiny text, all of the audience?

I'm fine with things looking like one thing and being another, so long as that other is discernible. But tiny text comes off as at best, wasted effort; at middling, a line that almost fits with the icon but not really so it's made small to hide that fact; and at worst, pointless pretention - like, oh, what, you don't get my art? How bourgeois of you. Don't get me wrong - I like art and talking to artists about their ideas and the ways in which their work manifests, but I do think there's a lot of it that's virtually incomprehensible or be so open to interpretation as to be rendered as such.

The idea behind LiveJournal is, in my head anyway, that it's a medium for the masses. It's for anybody who wants it, no particular talent required, and the whole idea is that within it, you're coming together in a community (or at least taking some varying levels of active participation in contributing to it.) So making an icon that can't possibly be understood by people who otherwise share every other interest in the universe seems counterproductive to the democracy of the medium. Which I realize is a fiction, whatwith fandom having its own hierarchies and politics, but back to the point, tiny text takes art that is smart or clever or funny and unnecessarily making it inaccessible. Icons are supposed to be, to some greater or lesser extent, a mode of self-expression in addition to the post. And if that piece of the message is lost on the audience or makes an unintended impression, then what hase been accomplished?

IMHO, as a member of that bourgeois. As proof, I will now return to my lunch of unfrozen arepa and instant coffee.

Comments

[marythefan.livejournal.com]

I hate tiny text. Hate. It. It's irritating, because I'm always squinting, going "what the hell does that say?" Also, the feeling of pretentiousness you mention - it's designed, purposely, to be incomprehensible. At best, it's like putting up something that says nothing.

I would have so many more icons from giveaways if not for tiny text. But no matter how much I love everything else, I won't use an icon that's got tiny text on it.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Yes! The squinting! When I first saw it, I fiddled with my resolution and tried to decipher it forever because icons have meaning, right? I'm supposed to glean a little of the secrets of the universe here, if only my eyes weren't failing me! Then I find out that it's just meant to be decorative. Huh? It's like if Kenny's lines on South Park were just random words and grunts. I love icons, "a lot," and there's just this element of highbrow, intentional or not, in making a part of them inaccessible.

[crazybutsound]

I don't mind tiny text, have even been known to use it to some extent when making icons. I don't think it's any worse than icons with a lot of readable text that has no meaning whatsoever to anybody who's not in on the joke or the fandom or even worse, someone who's in on the fandom but isn't getting the joke because it's a private one. Mary's icon is a good example, of that. *points up* There's text, I can read it, and yet, I do NOT get it. Same effect in my eyes as tiny text, lol. Worse, maybe even because whereas tiny text is clearly not meant to be understood, and is hence just as your friend said a simple design element among many others, something you can either like or not like depending on your aesthetic tastes, text that is readable but cryptic is meant to keep all those who aren't in on the know outside.

Tiny text to me is like... a brush, a tool that I use to fill in the icon space, or emphasize something in it visually, etc. It's usually also the same text I already have in the icon somewhere only smaller, so it doesn't really fall under the categories you listed. But even if it did, it's just a graphic design tool. Nothing wrong with that, just something you can like or not like, lol. What I don't agree with you on is your comparison to a story that would be lacking in some way and ask you to do too much reading between the lines. The use of tiny text on icons has nothing to do with that. Icons might be evident or not depending on a lot of things, but using tiny text on them is like using a frame or lines or any other graphic design tool, it doesn't have anything to do with hiding something from you and leaving more for you to try and guess without enough clues. To me, an icon like Mary's is a lot more difficult to understand than an icon like say... this one. *points to own icon* There's nothing to read between the lines on mine. Sure, it's got tiny text but every "clue" you need to understand it is there. The tiny text is only there as a visual effect. On Mary's icon, the text is not there for simple visual effect, it's there to add meaning and yet, there is a LOT more that's left unexplained in it than in mine. At least I think so (since I just don't get it, lol).

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

See, I haven't been in SGA fandom long enough to know the joke/story/line that spurred Mary's icon. But John's hair just looks like it would be smart and sentient and all diva. It's got its own attitude, rakish and rebelliously perfect that it is. So it's possible that her icon has no other meaning other than her looking at his hair and coming to the same conclusion I did. But yeah, it did take a little work and a thought process that's not necessarily natural to any viewer. But it's possible, which it isn't with tiny text.

I don't think it's any worse than icons with a lot of readable text that has no meaning whatsoever to anybody who's not in on the joke or the fandom or even worse, someone who's in on the fandom but isn't getting the joke because it's a private one.

No, I'm not a fan of private jokes either. But icons are rarely that. And people outside a fandom aren't going to get icons related to it, but then, those probably aren't the poster's target audience with the icon either.

It's usually also the same text I already have in the icon somewhere only smaller

Miranda uses lines from literature or lyrics relevant to add to the meaning of the icon, but she says you two fall into a minority. But either way, it's an unknowable other that has meaning beyong a filter or brush that's inaccessible. There's no "ooh, pretty" attached to tiny text in my mind. It's just making me squint and eventually roll my eyes and move on. I get that I'm not supposed to put in that effort, but it's WORDS and icons MEAN things and if I'm not getting it, there's all this pondering of what I could be missing.

[crazybutsound]

I get that I'm not supposed to put in that effort, but it's WORDS and icons MEAN things and if I'm not getting it, there's all this pondering of what I could be missing.

What bothers me with this approach I guess is how much that sounds like you'd be frowning on any icon that would use text, tiny or not but undecipherable to you, as a visual effect.

What about icons in German? French? Chinese? Japanese? Italian? What about private jokes, yes, and every single icon you will never get because there will be something in there that will just not be meant for anybody but the people who can decipher the language or the visual prompt? What about icons like the one you yourself are using in answer to Mary? (I can't read it, I'm sorry, what does it say?)Words have meaning, yes, but they also have aesthetic qualities. I've been known to buy books in languages I can't for the life of me understand (Bought the first foreign book in Sicily and I don't speak Italian) just for the beauty of the written word, not its meaning.

I understand why one wouldn't like tiny text aesthetically, I do (tastes--thank goodness--vary from one person to another, so like I said before, to each their own), but the reasons you're listing to explain your dislike make it sound like you would frown upon any icon that would use a prompt you don't get, and that sounds... well, elitist I guess, lol. To me, words have aesthetic qualities beyond their meaning, and I guess it's also what others who use tiny text or Chinese characters or any other kind of text as a visual element think. I know that visually, I will like a pretty icon better even if there's some text on it I don't get (either because it's tiny or cryptic) than an icon with so much text that it's pasted on the image in a way that will take away most of the aesthetic quality of the icon in the first place.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

that sounds like you'd be frowning on any icon that would use text, tiny or not but undecipherable to you, as a visual effect

That's because it's true. Text that I am supposed to be able to decipher, such as Romance and Germanic languages, is different from brushes or filters or other design elements. Text that I couldn't possibly know the meaning of, like Japanese kanji, is fine because there's no possible way it's readily accessible to me in any meaningful way. On that note, I already said I don't like private-joke icons, but...

every single icon you will never get because there will be something in there that will just not be meant for anybody but the people who can decipher the language or the visual prompt

As I said, I think icons that require that much insight defeat the purpose of the democratic medium of LiveJournal, which should be for everyone. Which I said I realize isn't a realistic vision of LJ, but in my ideal world, these would be the rules.

The icon I used to reply to Mary says "my fandom has delicate sensibilities." At face value, it's Lance going whoa, slow down there partner and no thank you. I use it self-mockingly for when I feel icked by something and whine about it. If you know where the picture was taken (a Playboy party) and that Lance is the flaming darling of popslash, it's also funny in addition to functional.

And that's a difference between us - I would never buy a book I couldn't read, because while do think words are pretty, they have been conditioned into me as functional, moreso now that I am set to make a living with then. To me, words are pretty when they are strung together successfully, not for merely existing.

the reasons you're listing to explain your dislike make it sound like you would frown upon any icon that would use a prompt you don't get, and that sounds... well, elitist

That's ironic, because I think people who make icons that are deliberately incomprehensible, as tiny text is an example, are elitist. Well, we're all standing on some pedestal, right? It's just interesting that I'm asking for the chance to be an active participant instead of a passive consumer and I'm elitist. I'm not hurt by your comments, just find them interesting. Also, I don't mind icons I'm not supposed to get because I'm not in the fandom or whatever else. But my inability to understand it should be clear, which for me doesn't include tiny text. There should be nothing inherently incomprehensible in the language I speak because god knows there are plenty other ways to confuse me.

I will like a pretty icon better even if there's some text on it I don't get (either because it's tiny or cryptic) than an icon with so much text that it's pasted on the image in a way that will take away most of the aesthetic quality of the icon in the first place.

Aah, and here's the rub. You think of icons as more form, less function, whereas I'm all function in as pleasant a form as possible. I don't like something just because I find it pretty, which is again personal taste divergence.

[crazybutsound]

Mmmm, yeah, ok, I get your point. We're just wired differently. :-) And I certainly didn't mean to hurt feelings, nor was I hurt in anyway by your rant, lol, I just found it interesting and debatable, something I can never stay away from anyway. Also, I think the way we view things differently is really interesting because I think you have a more journalistic approach to things, and I have more of an aesthetic one. Not that you don't also have an aesthetic one and me an informative one but one is more your style and the other more mine, which I just find interesting in regard to what you and I do for a living. :-)

Also, the icon I'm having problems with is not the Lance one, I totally got that one, but the one you replied to Mary with which is an HP icon (and I still can't read what's on it, lol).

Oh, and completely unrelated but I have not been able to find the popslash story you were looking for. Sorry. :-(

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Aah, this confusion is because I have wee small brain. The icon of Harry and Remus says "I don't need a hero." It's a quote from a song by Concrete Blonde of the same title, and the chorus continues with:

"I don't need a soldier
I did when I was younger
but now that I'm older
I don't need a father
I don't wanna be your mother
it's just that any one of us is half
without another one is you"

If it wasn't obvious from my journal, I am a Remus/Harry girl, for which I will burn horribly but there it is. Would just anybody get all that? No, but if they can read the text (ha! My argument is foiled), it gives an inkling of their relationship and their similarities. The icon, as with most pretty, smart things I possess, is by walkingshadow, and though I might be able to claim suggestion of the song, the heavy lifting is all her.

Tears and sadness about the popslash story. [sigh] Nobody went to the trouble of saving all those files like you did that day, a feat I still live in awe of. It's what I get for saving all the things from the CDs you made me and not keeping them. Eh, maybe I'll come across someone with a hard copy and cough up the money for copies. Thanks for checking though.

[crazybutsound]

re the icon: Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! And yes, I know the song. Beautiful song. Love Concrete Blonde. And now that I get it, yes, I also get the rest. Just couldn't read it, lol.

As for you burning in hell over that pairing....hum... I'm kinda quite partial to Harry/Snape myself so we'll probably be sharing a handbasket on our way to hell, uh?

And yeah, it's a shame about that story, I adored it. :-( I was quite sure I'd saved it myself but I just haven't been able to find a working copy. I have discovered that a LOT of the files I had saved were badly saved and more than half of them are now irretrievable. *cries*