*sigh*

[aruan]

A dear friend of mine was dealt a grave injustice tonight, in the form of a Christmas present of all things. She had a very simple wish, something heartbreakingly endearing like the little boys who ask for socks from Santa. She wanted a story. About two boys and a third element. She wrote her own for someone else, a pairing that she herself wouldn't go out of her way to write, but did her absolute best to remain faithful to its integrity.

I understand about being new to the fandom. *waves hello* Been here barely five months, nice to meet you. I understand about wanting to become a part of it by participating in events and challenges. But Don We Now Our Gay Apparel was different from its inception, because the idea was that these were *gifts* for *other fans* for the holidays. You weren't writing for yourself - the creative masturbation was for an audience now, and the analogy works because the idea behind undertaking this task was the confidence not only that you could meet the requirements, which you wouldn't know until they were *assigned* to you, but that you could rise to the occasion to write something that can objectively be qualified as good. This was supposed to be meaningful and pleasing, and my friend ended up with a fic that was obviously unbetaed, and we're not just talking a few commas, whose tone was downright snide toward the pairing and resentful of the single other request she made regarding the story's content. My friend has been anticipating this with all due right, and she's now upset that she had any influence in the genesis of this story. This was a huge undertaking, and participation should've meant that the would-be author understood all the risks she ran by tossing her hat into the ring and felt competent enough not to write but to write *for someone else.*

If you've been keeping up, I had a bit of a crisis over the course of this past week. There was the inherently traumatic flat tire which resulted in my not getting back from Orlando International until 4 o'clock in the morning of the day my Literature paper was due, of which I had at that point 3/10ths written. There was the Literature paper, and the frantic, stress-filled, agonized three days I spent in no other pursuits but formulating it. Then there was the packing as I was being kicked out of house and home for the winter break, and the inexorable drive home, which concluded in my plopping down in front of the computer at 10 o'clock on Saturday night to do anything but want to tear at my hair for the first time pretty much since a week before that.

Then there was the quick and vexing death of DSL not half an hour into my attempting to catch up with real (lowercase 'r') life on Sunday night. It was not resusitated until later on Monday, but that didn't matter as I spent both days in also aforementioned pursuits - chained to my sofa with Douglas, frantically working on the Secret Santa challenge fic I had about 3/5ths done. I did, however, manage to read the first page of my mail before it kerplunked and discovered that I had received one from the admins stating that since I hadn't responded to their previous email (sent earlier that morning) in the given twelve-hour timeframe, my recipient had been reassigned to receive a story from someone else.

This e-mail was about twenty minutes old when I got to my account. I quickly fired off a brief response, reassuring them that I was in fact close to completion and would finish well before Christmas, if a little belatedly as far as the original deadline is concerned, but well before they're due to be posted. Then Webmail died. So, I locked myself up and wrote some more, finally sending them a message from no fewer than two e-mail accounts, with my story coded to Don We Now Our Gay Apparel specifications as in-message text, an attached .txt file, and as an .html document. They didn't accept it. The person they asked to write the replacement story couldn't have known about their task for more than half an hour, and it's not like any one of them hadn't already done her fair share for the challenge.

There's also another essay formulating in here about people who can just sit down at any time of day or night, and make it happen on the page. It's like, if they didn't have to go to work or take care of life things, they could just sit down and this stuff would flow out of them in an uninterrupted stream. The replacement story my recipient got was great, I do not contest, it's just that whoever wrote it did it in the span of about a day, whereas I bled, cried, agonized, and possibly got myself that much closer to that ulcer at 30 than I'd been before. But I loved every minute of it. I knew my recipient, kept her in mind every time I opened it or scribbled down a random thought in the middle of a class as this story took shape. It's still hers, so far as I'm concerned, but there's a whine about that 'principle' thing in there.

My friend deserved better.

I deserved consideration.


*deep sigh* So it goes. My friend, in her infinitely kind and giving spirit, wants to write me happy!JoLa and I couldn't possibly love her more but there it is. I'm already onto planning what I'd like to choose for my next challenge, because apparently that's the way to get me to write, but whatever else it's going to be it's going to have all kinds of comfort food [pairing of choice] because babe, you were wronged and that's just deserving of a redress of grievances, and since we're all still only human, I'll do what I can.

P.S. My own Secret Santa's story was epic and amazing. Joey and Lance, Christmas in New York, and the author spun introspective!Joey magic from that. It's also interesting that a lot of the same themes that I explored in mine came up here, and sometimes even in the same wording. Heh. Great minds, tralala.

"If all that was true and, really, the only part Joey got was the bit about the Ugly Duckling, then Rudolph should be Lance's favorite movie, not Joey's. Because Lance was the one who hadn't fit in, who'd been lost and unwanted. He was the one who'd stepped in for Jason at the last minute, who the Germans had tried to nix their record deal over, the supposed liability who didn't belong, except he did. He always had, and *NSYNC wouldn't be *NSYNC without Lance, who was proving everyone wrong now, who was the swan he'd always been destined to be, the leader of Santa's little team of reindeer, not a reject. Except maybe Lance didn't know that, given how hard he was struggling to overcome his perceived failure.

Maybe that was why Rudolph wasn't Lance's favorite. Maybe Lance was the only one who didn't know he was a swan."
-On the Twelfth Day of Christmas

Comments

[eponymous.livejournal.com]

I've responded to your post here (http://www.livejournal.com/talkpost.bml?journal=eponymous&itemid=101941), if you're interested.

[gblvr.livejournal.com]

I don't know you, but I have to say this. Behavior like this is rude. People have different levels of ability and skill when it comes to writing, and in this case, it's the thought that counts. Yeah, it would be nice if we could all have a story by our favorite author, written to our exact specifications, but that's unrealistic.

It's okay to not like your story, but just like with your Great Aunt Matilda who gives you the same pink crocheted sweater, it's better to say "thank you kindly" and move on to something more productive.

This is just my opinion. YMMV, and all that.

[lisan.livejournal.com]

It's certainly too bad that you feel discontent with the DWNOGA, but let me point our three things:

1. Luck of the draw. Not everyone drew pairings they liked to write, not everyone got stories that sent them into raptures.
2. A deadline is a deadline, whatever RL or technological troubles you may have had. Negotiations for extensions, if any, happen _before_ the deadline, not after. Timeliness before perfection, and all that.
3. You have obviously never been through the anguish of needing to write something good on an impossible deadline. Imagine all your heartbreak and worry in those 30 days, compressed in one day.

Whine, whine, whine

[(Anonymous)]

Or gee, maybe it was a GIFT (!!!) and perhaps you're taking BOYBAND SLASH (and yourself) way too seriously. Grow up. Sometimes you don't GET what you want for Christmas. *rolls eyes*

Re: Whine, whine, whine

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

If I didn't think I was going to get something from a specific person, I wouldn't ask for it. Case in point, I don't expect Lance to show up on my doorstep, trussed up with a red bow and willing to spend the rest of the day per my wishes, nor would I ask him to do such a thing. That's being realistic. And I asked for nothing but what I was giving as far as this challenge, and don't believe I should've received anything more, or, case in point, less. My Secret Santa's story to me was amazing, and I'm very excited about that and plan to thank her for the obviously dedicated job she did writing something for me. I myself worked hard, edited drafts, planned and thought and researched my recipient *and* my pairing to get it right, and sent my own story to my original recipient, officially part of the challenge or not, and asked them to consider it their own, circumstances notwithstanding and without undermining the work their replacement author did, which itself was amazing. My friend, however, I feel was shortchanged, and not subjectively so. There's not catching a typo, there's not having a solid grasp on a character, but this was, to me, slapped together without any real thought to the plot, the integrity of the pairing, the satisfaction of a wish. *That's* what I take seriously, and perhaps too much so, but so be it.

Re: Whine, whine, whine

[embitca.livejournal.com]

Oh God, what an ingrate you are and on behalf of somebody else too, which just kind of takes it to a whole new level. I'm sure your friend is disappointed. Disappointment happens. But to whine about it so bitterly, over something so essentially unimportant just smacks of an overwhelming lack of holiday spirit. I hope your friend isn't whining about this as much as you are.

Re: Whine, whine, whine

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Oh God, what an ingrate you are and on behalf of somebody else too, which just kind of takes it to a whole new level.

Ungrateful? Not that. If you'll see, my mood was specified as "unhappy but grateful" at the outset of the post. I'm nothing but in awe of Pet and Georgina for undertaking this task of I daresay unforeseen proportions. I applaud the many people who put forth genuine effort in completing their stories to the best of their ability. I thank my Secret Santa, whoever she is, for the wonderful, wonderful fic she wrote for me, and couldn't be happier with that, and have said so.

I'm sure your friend is disappointed. Disappointment happens. But to whine about it so bitterly, over something so essentially unimportant just smacks of an overwhelming lack of holiday spirit.

First thing: my journal, my right to whine. Which is not what I feel like I was doing at all, but hey, they say we're the worst judges of our own character, so that's neither here nor there.

Second thing: It's not disappointment, it's genuine *hurt* that we're talking here. I felt the need to vent on her behalf, because she wasn't in fact merely disappointed, she was *hurt* by the (what can objectively be viewed as) insults, dealt to the characterizations of the boys, the integrity of the pairing, and her personally chosen third element, by this fic. It's my own prerogative to be indignant on her behalf if I so choose, though.

Third thing: My opinion remains that everyone who entered should've done so in good faith that they could rise to the myriad requirements of the challenge, not the least of which was satisfying someone else's wish. There didn't feel to be any holiday-natured thought to count here.

I hope your friend isn't whining about this as much as you are.

My friend intends to be a trooper and not mention it at all, thanks for asking.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

It's certainly too bad that you feel discontent with the DWNOGA

I never, *ever* said I was anything but enamored with all of Don We Now Our Gay Apparel, how cool an idea and ambitious a project it is, and have lapsed in giving props to Pet and Georgina for volunteering to coordinate it. I was never "discontent" with *any* part of the challenge - my only lament was that circumstances beyond my control but entirely reparable in a very timely fashion prevented my official participation in it. The replacement author hadn't known they'd been assigned for longer than half an hour by the time I sent the e-mail reply, and possibly longer since this all happened fairly late in the evening and maybe they hadn't checked their e-mail before going to bed. That's all, and yes, ultimately, entirely my fault for not notifying the admins sooner. I've accepted this and dealt with it my own way. My other issue was that of my friend's fic, which reflected neither concerted effort nor good-natured intent, but in fact felt insulting in its characterizations of the boys, the integrity of the pairing, and the treatment of the third element my friend asked to have included. She, and I feel rightfully so, was *hurt* by some of the things in the fic. It's my own prerogative to be indignant on her behalf. But I've never, and still do not, harbor any sort of discontent about the challenge, its principles, or its intent. Note also that my mood at the time of posting was "unhappy but grateful."

1. Luck of the draw. Not everyone drew pairings they liked to write,

This was all part of the very long list of things that, in my opinion, everyone should've taken into consideration to be an informed, prepared, and willing participant.

-If you got a pairing you don't read, there would be research in the form of exemplary fic, personal history through photographs and footage.
-If you got a pairing you don't like, there would be sucking up and working hard to still maintain true to the style and issues of that pairing.
-If you got a character you weren't strong with, there'd be research in the form mentioned above.

We all accepted the chance of our not getting a pairing we liked/were comfortable with writing. That was part of the understood premise of the challenge, and one of the most important aspects to keep in mind, again imo.

not everyone got stories that sent them into raptures.

That was not a requirement, nor should there have been some sort of "standard" or "quality control," whatever either one of those things would've been, to ensure that the fic was everything the recipient wanted. The overwhelming majority of the authors who participated wrote their stories to the best of their ability with exactly the intent that was behind the challenge, which was to fulfill the wish of a fellow fan in the form of a fic, and my hat's off to each and every one, as I am the *very* happy recipient of one such story myself. The story my friend received, however, had glaringly obvious mechanical problems, demonstrated a strong dislike for the pairing and the caricature that passed for characterization of the boys, not to mention the clear disdain for the third element my friend asked to have included. It was bad fic. And how many people complain about the wealth of that? This is my own first time taking issue with the negative side of the abundant nature of fanfiction, and I feel a justified occasion as well as example.

Continued below...

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

2. A deadline is a deadline, whatever RL or technological troubles you may have had. Negotiations for extensions, if any, happen _before_ the deadline, not after.

You're absolutely, 150% right in that. As I said up there though, it's something that could've been fixed very easily and with a modicrum of inconvenience to the admins, to whom I sent a notice of assurance and then a pre-coded version of my story, as well as the tapped author, who had to pound the story out in a single day, not thirty. But you're still right, a deadline was a deadline, and I should've asked the moment I knew I'd need the minor extension. My own fault and loss.

Timeliness before perfection, and all that.

I haven't heard it summed up quite like that, but I'm learning it (MMC2100), have been learning it (10th grade Creative Writing, PPE3004), and will be learning it if I want to pursue any sort of career in Journalism.

3. You have obviously never been through the anguish of needing to write something good on an impossible deadline. Imagine all your heartbreak and worry in those 30 days, compressed in one day.

Try three hours. I took a Journalism class this past semester of college, for which we had a writing lab once every week where we had to complete whatever assignment they threw at us at the beginning by the end. No, it's not creative writing, and sometimes we had a fact sheet like for an article on the local gubernational elections, but it was still whatever the assignment required, due by the end of the lab period. Well, this was as much an assignment, in that it had guidelines,

Try 50 minutes. I've taken Advanced Placement Tests, Writing Assessments, and the SAT IIs, all timed writing situations, and have written countless timed essays for my two AP English Language/Literature classes. Seven hundred to a thousand words in fifty minutes becomes your thing or you fail. And that's dazzling analysis, not free choice creative writing.

This was not an impossible deadline. I signed up on the 19th of November, which was, if memory serves, close to four of five days after the challenge was initially announced. I signed up knowing I'd be taking a full load of courses for the semester. I signed up knowing how long it takes me to get something written, not to mention the way I want it. I signed up knowing how important this was to someone else and knowing that it would be reciprocated in kind by a third party. There was a month to write after the assignment notices were sent out. When the reassignment e-mail came, I told the admins I could handle it in a (luckily) *very* timely enough fashion (within the half hour of the e-mail being sent) for them to let the reassigned author know very shortly after they'd been told themselves. That they e-mailed me back to tell me that the reassignment was irrevocable was, in my opinion, unnecessary crunch that the other author was then put under. To which they rose most admirably, I should add.

The author of the alluded-to story obviously did not put forth the effort or consideration in the same way I did in making my decision and executing it, and it's my right to feel bad and insulted on behalf of my friend, who feels those things herself. This wasn't a time issue for them, it was by all appearances a not caring issue.


That I've never written on an impossible deadline was your wrong assumption, and the circumstances weren't even close to resembling that scenario. I'll gladly apologize to the author if my assumption, that the submitted story was slapped together without effort or thought, in haste enough to not catch glaring basic grammatical errors and quite possibly bad faith, is alike in nature.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I don't know you, but I have to say this. Behavior like this is rude.

Is it any more rude than people who complain about the abundance of bad fanfiction in general? I was appropriately vague in both my references to the story and my friend, but felt the need to point this story out specifically because it wasn't just bad fic; it was, in my opinion, hurtful and insulting to its recipient in its lack of the very good faith Don We Now Our Gay Apparel is based on.

People have different levels of ability and skill when it comes to writing, and in this case, it's the thought that counts.

We're in total agreement here. I didn't mean for this to get into an issue of merit and presenting writerly credentials at the door, because that's not what my issues with this fic stem from at all. This fic was bad not because the author didn't have a good grasp on the technical aspecs of English, that only contributed to the overall negligent feel of it. As a matter of facy, stylistically, there were points where the potential for good storytelling was obviously present but ultimately overlooked.

Writing one's first fic is hard work, even if you're only doing it for yourself and not even for a challenge at all. But to choose this challenge, one where you're writing for someone else based on their specifications? I would've been terrified at the mere thought when I was starting out. So more power if there were first timers here (as I was in my own way - first piece of popslash) who gave it their best with the good intentions that were the only true foundational principles to adopt for participation.

Yeah, it would be nice if we could all have a story by our favorite author, written to our exact specifications, but that's unrealistic.

You're absolutely right, and that shouldn't even have been something that went into consideration when each author made her decision to participate in the challenge. We were giving first, not receiving after all. My issue, however, is not with the technical qualities of the fic but rather with its content and the way it reflected on the individual boys, the pairing, and my friend's wish.

It's okay to not like your story, but just like with your Great Aunt Matilda who gives you the same pink crocheted sweater, it's better to say "thank you kindly" and move on to something more productive.

Like you said, YMMV, and it could just be me who sees things the way I've explained them, except it isn't, and it's my prerogative to dwell on my indignation in my journal.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I went bottom-up with my responses, though knowing who you are I now wish I had started chronologically, as the first thing I wanted to mention as lacking in my original post is that I do not in any way blame/disdain you or Pet for your decision regarding the Secret Santa deadline decision. It was a fair call, I had my chance and whatever else happened in there was my own to negotiate and should've let you know sooner. I guess I didn't make that clear enough in my entry, and for that I apologize. I can't tell you how much I admire the undertaking you and Pet willingly accepted with Don We Now Our Gay Apparel, probably not expecting *nearly* the turnout you had and working tirelessly from beginning to end to make it happen for the rest of us. I thank you for all your hard work involving this wonderful challenge. As the mood of the post had stated, "unhappy but grateful" was my sentiment there. I never meant to undermine what you two did, and especially not as far as my own personal kerfuffle, which I repeat and realize was my own fault. It wasn't in the least fair to you to put you in a position of facing the possibility that the story wouldn't be finished, but I wouldn't have said that I was that close to completing the story if I hadn't been. Had there been any chance at all that it wouldn't be finished by a reasonable time before they were to be posted, I never would've sent the initial e-mail asking to reconsider your decision to reassign.

The revision was me and my chronic dissatisfaction with what I write no matter how satisfied I might be with it in the state it's in, so even beta-ed and sent I decided to go through it and make some cosmetic changes. That was a selfish and deeply inconsiderate thing to do, and my apologies for not having the restraint to have been happy with having a perfectly good version posted at all.

Of course, none of that would've happened if Webmail hadn't been down all day Monday and I'd received your e-mail declining my participation due to the deadline concerns. But the issue of unreliable Web servers is again neither here nor there.

As for the time estimations, I've since deleted the e-mails but I remember getting online around 10:10ish on Sunday night and recall the timestamp on your e-mail being 9:47, but all of that, like we've both now said, is irrelevant. A deadline is a deadline, and maybe if I'd spoken to you in advance but not on notice like that should you have seriously considered the entry.

I may not have liked the decisions, but I recognize that they were the best ones in the end, a conclusion I should've included, however grudgingly, in my original post.

So in conclusion, I would like to sincerely extend my gratitude to you and Pet for your work in making Don We Noew Our Gay Apparel happen. As for my story, I'll announce it here and post it on my site as I would with any other, and have dealt with the rest on my own. I only wish it could've been a smoother run of things to get there, but I treasure the end product beyond that.

[ellie-fic.livejournal.com]

Here's the thing that leaps out at me about this whole "issue". You talk about characterisations of "the boys" whom your friend, and be default everyone else, wanted - about research being done, and it being got "right"...

It's fiction.

It's speculation.

It's not fucking real!!!

Ergo, honey, it's never going to be "right", because, frankly, the characterisations of "the boys" don't exist outside their authors/readers minds. It really is as simple as all that. As somebody else said, you really are taking this too seriously - and yeah, sure, your journal and your perogative to whine/bitch/complain about the sheer unfairness of life... but by putting this complaint of yours into a public forum is just throwing salt onto a wound as far as many of us other participants in the whole Secret Santa "thing" are concerned.

Many of us *are* new to writing in this particular fandom; many of us *don't* know the people we were writing for. I have no clue what the person I wrote a fic for even *likes*, given that all I had was a name, a pairing, and a setting. That was it. Many others had Live Journal addresses to go poke around in, or websites, to get a clue about what was/wasn't permissible. I didn't, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was, literally, writing blind - but I know that we all did the best we fucking could to meet what was a very reasonable deadline.

You talk about how you're going into journalism as though that somehow makes you a writer. It doesn't. Journalists are *not* writers. Otherwise they'd both be called the same thing. It's probably why you had such a hard time meeting the deadline - not that I wish to assume anything about you, mind. When push comes to shove, though, *you* were the one who fucked up and trying to heap guilt in the directions of those running this project is hugely unfair. They did what anyone else would have done to ensure that everyone got their story on time. For Christmas. Because they had a website and/or coding to pull together prior to a few hours before the site went live, in order for that to happen. The fact that your story wasn't ready when it should have been isn't/wasn't their problem - and it was incredibly moronic of you to assume that they should be the ones to sit idly by twiddling their thumbs waiting for you to get round to finishing your story.

Whilst I'm sure you're actually a very nice person generally and/or in Real Life, by doing this, all you're coming across as being is incredibly selfish, immature, and with a ridiculously large ego. The Secret Santa project does not revolve around any one person, but was set up to bring smiles to the faces of *many*.

To paraphrase someone who left an earlier comment: get the fuck over yourself.

[lisan.livejournal.com]

This was not an impossible deadline.

I was speaking of the person who did the pinch hitting. She had barely a day and she did what you couldn't. She _delivered._

And listing me all your writing classes/tests is pointless. Yuo still _didn't deliver,_ and instead of apologizing for your tardiness and being thankful someone was there to cover your ass, you're spending all this time and effort being annoyed and defending yourself. And yet, I must note the verbosity and alacrity with which you explain and answer posts. Very impressive. ::rolls eyes::

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I was speaking of the person who did the pinch hitting.

Yes, I got that, but the same goes to the author whose work I saw as having been slapped together in bad faith and not terribly considerate of its subjects nor the recipient.

I've said that not meeting the deadline was my own fault and loss.

And listing me all your writing classes/tests is pointless.

I was arguing your assumption that I don't know what it's like to write well in a crunch situation.

Yuo still _didn't deliver,_ and instead of apologizing for your tardiness and being thankful someone was there to cover your ass, you're spending all this time and effort being annoyed and defending yourself.

I've already given kudos to the replacement author, whoever she is, on her submission, not because it was last minute (which just makes it that much more awe-worthy to me) but because it was *good.* It was considerate of not only its subject matter but its recipient, and that's all I could've asked for for my wonderful recipient. However, I wouldn't have said I could do it if I wouldn't be able to because I knew this was for someone else, so in my *subjective* opinion, the replacement author was unnecessarily tapped to write.

And yet, I must note the verbosity and alacrity with which you explain and answer posts. Very impressive. ::rolls eyes::

I answered at length because the last thing I wanted here was to have my expressed opinions misunderstood, which they have been at points. It's not about 'did I consider that this was maybe the author's first time' because for my own reasons I *don't* think that was the issue, and it's not about 'I blame the admins' because I've said over and over and apologized to them that it wasn't clear in the first place that I do not resent their decision, as it was the right one to make under the circumstances.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

It's fiction.
It's speculation.
It's not fucking real!!!

It is fiction, that much is certain. And granted, we have a *lot* of leeway in our individual interpretations of what we imagine the guys would say/do in a given situation. Even the fact that there are fairly broad, objective blanket statements that one can make about their personalities (i.e. Chris is the funny, crazy one) is irrelevant because that's not necessarily relevant to what the fic is dealing with (i.e. Chris can also be the shrewdly understanding or the incredibly insecure one).

But *inaccurate* characterization wasn't my issue - my issue was *malicious mischaracterization* of the boys and the pairing, which is what I feel happened here. This is my opinion first and foremost, and regardless that I'm not alone nor do I feel any measure of uncertainty about it, I have every right to call 'em as I see 'em. This wasn't a lack of understanding the characters and pairing, but a lack appreciation for the elements of the fic and its recipient.

Ergo, honey,It's as simple as that, and I don't need your patronizing commentary to know I didn't do or say anything wrong.

by putting this complaint of yours into a public forum is just throwing salt onto a wound as far as many of us other participants in the whole Secret Santa "thing" are concerned.

There's a wound here? Forgoing my friend, I didn't recognize Don We NowOur Gay Apparel had wounded anyone in any way, directly or not. And how were my comments any more offensive or rude than a lot of other people who said that, yeah, the challenge had its fair share of bad fic? My complaint wasn't that the fic wasn't up to some 'par,' but that it was demeaning to all concerned - my friend, the boys, and the author herself for writing, much less submitting it.

Many of us *are* new to writing in this particular fandom;

As am I. Since July, and like I've said I understand about that and have nothing but the most profound and sincere respect for all of you who chose to undertake the enormity of this challenge as one of your starting points. It was brave, and I respect that. I respect every single person who wrote with the intent to make their recipient happy, no matter if they themselves were an established author or someone just starting to make their way. The issue with the fic wasn't that the author might be new, but that the content of her story was snide to my friend and deliberately insulting to the boys featured, not to *mention* the pairing, and we're not even coming close to touching on the outright *disdain* expressed for my friend's single other request regarding the story. If you felt you could do justice to the request of your recipient, whatever that may end up being, you had every right to participate. My issues with this fic were not a matter of the author's "being new" or "not having a grasp of the characters," however.

Continued...

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

many of us *don't* know the people we were writing for. Many others had Live Journal addresses to go poke around in, or websites, to get a clue about what was/wasn't permissible.

The idea was only to write something you felt the other person would like based on their specifications. If they chose not to express anything further about their likes/dislikes in any sort of forum that was fine, because your criteria remained the same whether they've been on LiveJournal since its inception or just got online yesterday and don't know the first thing about e-mail. I didn't know my recipient before I received the challenge specifications either. But these were all risks we knowingly accepted and willingly took on by signing up for the challenge. You weren't obligated to go anywhere above and beyond the call after it was issued - I felt no pressing obligation to look up my person's LiveJournal or interests, but I had the opportunity and did so on my own time and choice. That was never a requisite part of the challenge though.

You talk about how you're going into journalism as though that somehow makes you a writer.

If you'll read back over what I wrote regarding that, you'd see that journalism was a demonstrative example, *not* an analogy or illustration of my alleged highbrow superiority. I *never* held myself up as the standard for anything much less fanfiction, which is what you seem to be implying here. That would be stupid as I know my limits and send feedback about the seeming lack of it on others' abilities on a regular basis. She made an offhand and dismissive comment, I responded with salient illustrations that I knew full well the implications she claimed I was ignorant of. Nothing more.

I'm a writer because I put words on a page. I'm a writer because I pick up pens/keyboards on regular basis and string together letters and words into the coherence I've spent the past fourteen years of my life learning. I'm a writer, and that doesn't mean I'm good, it just means I'm an literate, verbose, evolved ape. That's all I was saying, but thanks for leaping to conclusions.

Journalists are *not* writers.

Alright then, I have to say this is where things changed. None of this, not anywhere in the previous comments or otherwise has this become a fight, but that comment right there is a call to arms.

How dare you. Some journalists have spent their whole lives writing, from the time when they could first control their fine motor functions enough to grasp a crayon right down to each new assignment they receive. They love their craft and weave their stories as intricately as any other author, and possibly with a greater consciousness of the details because their forum, *the public,* demands it. They are judged daily and more harshly than any other person in the writing profession.

And if what they do is not writing, what would you call it? Do you think they translate mathematical equations into language, or just conjure their work from thin air? Do you think they spend thousands of dollars on graduate school and poring over books of every kind from grammar to ethics, learning the nuances of their craft as well as its implications, for their own health? No, they do it so they can be the best kind of writer in the niche of the writing world.

All journalists *are* writers, but not all writers are journalists. Eight grade Algebra, and boy did I never think I'd have use for that but there it is.

Continued...

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

When push comes to shove, though, *you* were the one who fucked up and trying to heap guilt in the directions of those running this project is hugely unfair.

You know what, you *don't* know the first thing about me, and it was incredibly presumptive of you to put words into my mouth at that.

If anything, having been involved in Journalism should've honed my deadline-writing skills. Forgoing that I've never missed a deadline in either the class nor my freelance work for a local paper, I did in fact fall down on the job here, and have acknowledged that over and over but *nowhere* did I in *any way* blame Pet or Georgina for my own disappointment at my own failure regarding that. I may have taken a moment to pout about my hard work not being recognized as I wish it could've been, but the mature adult within always knew that it was my own damn fault in the end, regardless of every other difficulty, technical or otherwise. None of the rest of the drama after their initial reply that no, sorry, there was no way they could unreassign me would've happened had I actually received that e-mail when it was sent, which was promptly after my own to them.

And it wasn't a matter of "getting around" to finishing my story at all, though thanks once again for presuming to know something about me from a few hundred word post. Most times, writing isn't something that comes naturally for me. There's a process of sitting down and making it happen, and sometimes yeah, it's just that easy to make it happen but most of the time it isn't. I spent most/a *lot* of the past month doing something in some way to make my story happen. The post was spawned of my own disappointment in myself, not out of any particular resentment of the admins, whose decisions were not only fair but entirely proper.

*outright snip mini-rant about my selfishness and immaturity at taking saying something about what I felt was a wrong dealt to a friend and for my toeing the dirt like a three-year-old in my subjective viewing of the facts while the twenty-year-old within has more than acknowledged the rightness of the decisions made, all in my own journal*

The Secret Santa project does not revolve around any one person, but was set up to bring smiles to the faces of *many*.

And that was *never* any contention of mine. I've said from the beginning how wonderful a project this is and know *exactly* what the Christmas spirit is, thank you. I personally have gushed and will intend to do so further to my own Secret Santa. I've not in any way undercut the work that my reassigned Secret Santa did, have in fact praised it, and took care of my own issues as far as my submission in my own way.

To paraphrase someone who left an earlier comment: get the fuck over yourself.

Take your own advice. And while you're at it, go get some more informed opinions, even if you have to borrow from others.

[eikichi-onizuka.livejournal.com]

As a participant in Don We Now Our Gay Apparel, I know how tight deadlines can get. I started working on my story shortly after I received my pairing, and continued to work on bits and pieces of it, even though my finals.

That being said, I want to add, truthfully and frankly: get over yourself.

The tone of your entry suggests that you are placing the blame on Pet and Georgina. You are the one who still hadn't finished the story over twenty-four hours past the deadline (given to you a month earlier) and were still revising even after submitting. You are the one that did not give any sort of advanced notice - the only notice came well after the deadline. Yes, real life happens, but you also had an entire month to work on the story.

The blame, I believe, rests squarely with you. Pet and Georgina had a deadline and a project to finish.

As for your friend, not every person can write a pearl of a story, or a mega-epic. All of the authors did their best, especially with limited information. My recipient had no website, nor a LiveJournal. I could do no research, so I just wrote to the best of my abilities, even though the setting was nothing I had done before. Your friend seems wholly ungrateful for what someone took time to create for her. Even if it isn't the best story, it's the thought that counts. Like I said, someone took time out of their life to create a story for your friend, and she's pissed because it wasn't up to her specifications? Way to be in the spirit of the season.

By the way, it's fan fiction, and slash at that. It's not Shakespeare. It's not Tolkien. Hell, it's not even a pair of socks. Don't take it so seriously.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

The tone of your entry suggests that you are placing the blame on Pet and Georgina.

Obviously a possibility, as you're not the first to have construed it as such. However, that wasn't my intent, as I've said over and over again and recognize that fault lies with me for not having contacted them sooner in some way, and the unfortunate soap opera of all this was mostly due to my own unreliable e-mail service. Had I received their reply declining my participation in the timely fashion that it was sent, none of the rest of the angst and kerfuffle would've happened.

The blame, I believe, rests squarely with you. Pet and Georgina had a deadline and a project to finish.

Agreed. I never blamed them for anything though, and the entry's sentiment was my wallowing in the disappointment I felt about myself and the results of that, not resentment toward the admins for making the proper decisions.

Your friend seems wholly ungrateful for what someone took time to create for her.

We are wholly and *completely* leaving my friend *out* of this discussion, as she's taken the higher and most respectable road of diplomacy and has moved to resolve her own feelings on the matter. This is my own mess to see through now, not hers.

Even if it isn't the best story, it's the thought that counts.

And like I said, I'd agree with that and could appreciate it except for the part where the story was, to say the least, lacking in the very spirit with which this challenge was created. It's not about my friends specifications, which were technically met, but the outright bad faith in which the fic was executed, which I've explained and outlined a thousand different ways by now.

By the way, it's fan fiction, and slash at that. It's not Shakespeare.

Are you saying that no one but Shakespeare should be writing at all? That what everyone else does, no matter who they are, is irrelevant and unworthy of discussion, of merit, of being taken seriously? Who's got impossible standards now?

Don't take it so seriously.

The fact that I can call this kerfuffle makes me thing I might have my head on straight about it.

[eikichi-onizuka.livejournal.com]

Are you saying that no one but Shakespeare should be writing at all? That what everyone else does, no matter who they are, is irrelevant and unworthy of discussion, of merit, of being taken seriously? Who's got impossible standards now?

You're misconstruing what I said a bit. I suppose this may be my opinion more than anything else, but I believe fan fiction should be light and a good time for everyone - even if there are elements of angst and all that. I am not saying that it's irrelevant and unworthy of discussion, I'm just merely saying that people take it too seriously at times.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Sigh. I also need to take a deep breath and let all the bitterness of wanking seep out of my pores. That and you really picked a hot-button line to use, and it'd been the first time anyone's mentioned it, surprisingly enough, and it's something I feel strongly about, so...

*deep breath*
*exhale*
There. Done. Onward.

I suppose this may be my opinion more than anything else, but I believe fan fiction should be light and a good time for everyone - even if there are elements of angst and all that.

Fanfiction is writing, and people who undertake that noble task are top-notch in my book. Some people look up to celebrities, others sports heroes - me, it's all about the writers. And fanfiction has wowed me in ways that a lot of the other reading I do, from novels for pleasure to assigned readings, has not. I believe fanfiction can be anything from a good time to a good exercise, for yourself or others, and I probably do take it too seriously, but that's because it probably means more to me than most people. YMMV, obviously.

[eikichi-onizuka.livejournal.com]

YMMV, obviously.

I will have to agree.

Nice to see a kerfuffle (kerlfuffle? kerfluffle? weh?) end up being a quite amicable and intelligent discussion.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

That icon is completely priceless.

And yes, this did end well I think, as I'm choosing to forgo dignifying the aforementioned wanking community with a response to their pettiness.

*skips off to do other, hopefully less controversial things*

[crazybutsound]

Hey there.
I've found your post through a series of links/friends pages, and even though I did not participate in DWNOGA, I couldn't help but want to comment.

I don't want to attack you because of what you wrote, I just want to participate in a debate which I thought was interesting, and which feels close to home. Just wanted to make that clear. :-)

Now, for what your complaints were, I understand that in being dissatisfied with the story that was written for your friend, you're not complaining about the actual quality of its writing, as much as you are condemning what you believe was the writer's intent. You think the writer didn't pay enough respect to your friend's wishes, you feel your friend was cheated. I can understand that. I'd have to have read the story to really be in a position to argue with you on that one.

I can however say that even though I see your point and understand it, I can also very well see why everybody has been feeling the need to point out to you that you should be respectful of the writer for the efforts he/she put into the story. The answers you made to the comments your post raised were a whole lot clearer about what you meant about being unhappy with your friend's fic than your original post had been.

As someone who's participated in this year's lotrips secret slasha (which followed the same lines as the DWNOGA challenge), I too felt that your first post was slightly rude to those of us who might have put a hell of a lot of efforts into writing, and still could never have pretended to meet most people's standards. I don't think that was your intention anymore. And I do agree with you that at any rate it wasn't worse than those who made general comments about the amount of badfics in this year's slashas.

You're condemning intent, not quality. Definitely your right to be upset about somebody's intent. Particularly if you think it was more or less malicious intent.

But yeah, I see your point.

(continued below)

[crazybutsound]

As for the "meeting the deadline" problem, despite all your efforts to justify your point of view, I still can't quite agree. Yes, ok, I understand that you feel this could all have been fixed to yours and--what you believe is--the replacement writer's advantage.

But. It seems that the replacement writer actually asked to write the story, not that Pet and Georgina pleaded for her/his help. So I think that maybe, despite it being still very close to the re-assignment of the story, telling that writer not to bother might have been as big a disappointment to them as it was to you. In that case, it wouldn't have been fixing things, but rather complicating them further.

Also, I know you're not pointing a finger, and I get that you're merely disappointed with your story not having been included in the challenge when surely you've worked very hard on it. But reading your post, it did feel as though you were putting part of the blame for this on Georgina and Pet. I'm not saying it was your intention, but it IS what your post sounded like. And I don't think it's merely a question of interpreting your words. Too many people have read things into your post that you claim you didn't mean in the first place. Maybe you didn't. But your post might not have been clear enough in its intent, then.

I think maybe what you should be angry and sad about is your bad luck. I'm really sad things had to add up and get in the way of your meeting the deadline. I can most certainly understand your disappointment. Still, I think maybe you chose words a little too ambiguous to express it. Just a thought.

And in light of that, don't you think it might be possible that what your friend's Santa intended was not what you're interpreting as malevolence, but was merely the result of a clumsy choice in words? It could be that they never meant to hurt your friend at all, and that what you see as being disrespectful of the pairing and setting your friend chose, was in fact an attempt at humor? Maybe not a very good one, but still. Can you really be so certain they didn't put as much effort and care into it as you yourself put into yours?

Again, just a thought. And I'm not saying you aren't allowed to feel offended because of that fic. I'm just trying to... uh... I don't know, give my own thoughts on the matter. Just wanted to particpate in your debate. Hope you don't mind, and that by making your post public, your were indeed inviting reactions. :-)

[between-names.livejournal.com]

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'm just thrilled to see you're still using that icon ;)

::uses the one I made for myself that same day:: :)

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I'm going to respond as I read along, but I'm sincerely appreciating your perfectly reasonable tone and the fact that you've obviously read my various responses to others. It's a nice departure from the unwarranted (or premature, if they still insist) namecalling and ostentatious interpretations. That always faciliates discussion, which no one seems to have wanted until you.

I've found your post through a series of links/friends pages, and even though I did not participate in DWNOGA, I couldn't help but want to comment.

And isn't beautiful that it's a free country and we're allowed the luxury of our opinions? I'm a fan. Also, on a personal note, would it have been too hard for others to start their responses in the same manner as you did here? Maybe this wouldn't have degenerated so quickly. Anyhow.

I don't want to attack you because of what you wrote, I just want to participate in a debate which I thought was interesting, and which feels close to home.

I hope you don't think I'm going to bite your head off or anything. The comment about journalists just set me off on that girl, but otherwise I think I've been civil.

*snip perfectly reasonable and informed statement of my points to date, reflecting much-appreciated understanding and rational calmness*

*heaves a huge sigh* Thank you for that. I've been getting breathless and mildly headachey repeating the same three things over and over and *still* have people bring up the same misconstructions yet again.

I'd have to have read the story to really be in a position to argue with you on that one.

Like I mentioned above, I refuse to link the story for myriad reasons, but above all because it's not relevant which one it was or what others may think. I called it as I saw it, and that's enough for this.

The answers you made to the comments your post raised were a whole lot clearer about what you meant about being unhappy with your friend's fic than your original post had been.

Oh, good. I've actually been coming across, this is encouraging.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I understand that you feel this could all have been fixed to yours and--what you believe is--the replacement writer's advantage.

I kept that line just so that point is nice and clearly summed. Because that was the logic that my pouty inner three-year-old was operating on when she lamented in the original post, the same logic that my present-day twenty-year-old self recognizes as irrelevant to the fact of the deadline and the necessity to ensure that everyone had a story on Christmas morning.

It seems that the replacement writer actually asked to write the story, not that Pet and Georgina pleaded for her/his help.

As I understood from their collective posts, they asked for volunteers to fill in as replacements, and the ones who had ideas based on the recipient's specifications were assigned the stories. I could be wrong, but that's how it seemed to me. Which is a perfectly logical method, and has the highest chance of turning out well for everyone involved.

So I think that maybe, despite it being still very close to the re-assignment of the story, telling that writer not to bother might have been as big a disappointment to them as it was to you.

Again, as per my understanding, the writers tapped were all writers who had already signed themselves up for the challenge in the first place and were willing and able to make another go at it for someone else. They've already contributed their part and were going above and beyond, which is pay my-respects-admirable to me on their part, but they'd fulfilled their commitment.

And as a sidenote, thank you for acknowledging the fact that somewhere in there, I was disappointed too, whether that emotion was technically valid or not.

...reading your post, it did feel as though you were putting part of the blame for this on Georgina and Pet. Too many people have read things into your post that you claim you didn't mean in the first place. Maybe you didn't. But your post might not have been clear enough in its intent, then.

*nods slowly, tiredly, but the wiser for it* Not clear enough in its intent indeed. And I've posted about that separately as well as responding to replies and intend to send a copy of my post to both of them as soon as my mail service is back up, but this is the thing that I will keep apologizing for until I'm blue in the face, then take a breath and continue to do so, because I never intended to blame them in any way. Heck, the challenge was a rousing success, wasn't it? I was merely stating, however irrelevantly, which I mentioned in the post, that things didn't *have* to turn out the way they did, and here's the scenario and why. The way they did turn out, however, was ultimately right and proper, in spite of my feelings.

Obviously, I need to be more careful about my phrasing. My disappointment may well've colored the language, but that's something to be worked on.

And in light of that, don't you think it might be possible that what your friend's Santa intended was not what you're interpreting as malevolence, but was merely the result of a clumsy choice in words? Can you really be so certain they didn't put as much effort and care into it as you yourself put into yours?

Yes, I can. Like I've said, I won't post the link for various reasons, but my opinion, and I'm not alone in this but that was never a factor, stands as I've stated it. I know bad fiction, inexperienced fiction, failed fiction - I've read a *lot* in my past seven years in fandom, not to mention my past twenty in Real life. As I see it, the story's tone was snide, the characterizations underhandedly insulting, the treatment of the third element spiteful. It wasn't flat humor, it wasn't botched parody, it wasn't a first timer's honest effort, it was just plain hurtful. Which does sound like a ridiculous reading of the text given its surrounding context and apparent motivating force, but that's what I see and I'm sticking by it.

And thanks for not dictating my emotions. That was a fun contention to run across with others' posts, let me just say.

Continued...

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to particpate in your debate.

Aside from Nia, who is goddess extraordinaire, your comments have been the most welcome out of everything that's been said in its various forms on this topic.

Hope you don't mind, and that by making your post public, your were indeed inviting reactions.

I mind not at all. I welcome any all commentary, and I never friendslock anything, though god knows the suggestion has been made numerous times today. But when I have an opinion I can usually back it soundly, even if it might come off as hotheaded and not fully thought-through initially, as it seems to have happened here. But if I have something to say, I see no reason to keep it secret from anyone and accept the consequences willingly. I'm still willing to discuss even this, and will fire off about a thousand e-mails to people as soon as my service is back up again, but I don't intend to start censoring myself just because people are (and I was honestly shocked by this) reading my journal. As a matter of fact, I hope people say something if I'm out of line or make a good point. There's a reason why this journal isn't entirely privatized, after all.

I've said it a few times in there, but I do sincerely appreciate your taking the time to wade through all the muck and post this intelligent, considerate, and informed reply.

[ellie-fic.livejournal.com]

Wow. I apparently touched a raw nerve - and for that, I do apologise. Perhaps I should explain what I meant about the whole "journalists not being writers" spiel that [apparently] seemed to set you off on a rant.

Journalists very often are set to word deadlines. You should already know this. They get deadlines thrown at them from every conceivable angle. Which is why *I* say that they're not writers, in that they aren't permitted the same verbose flow that writers of creative, even non-creative works are. Yes, there are some word boundaries in creative fiction, but they're not as stringent as articles for front-pages of tabloids. Which means, therefore, that they are not writers, but journalists, and should not be lumped into the same fucking category as the other. I wasn't demeaning journalism and/or journalists, given that I spend an awful lot of my working hours in their company and I have a lot of respect for those who take their work seriously. I know how tough the work is, and I admire those who have made it to the "big leagues".

I also wasn't saying that you aren't/weren't entitled to your own opinion. Everyone is, just as they're entitled to voice said opinion. Which was why I voiced mine. And I apologise if it pissed you off, or if you saw it as patronising/condescending in any way [I have a houseful of small children, sometimes my irritation tends to get thrown in the direction of innocent parties and for that I also apologise], but I am not going to recant it. You are taking the whole thing *far* too seriously than can possibly be good for anyone involved... although, I have to confess, I *am* intrigued by the "malicious mischaracterisation" bit. Either that bit's not in your original posting, or I missed it, but what do you mean by that?!? Because *how* can somebody maliciously write about characters, without having done their research and knowing them inside out?!?

As for getting over myself - I'm not the one who's just spent god alone knows how long typing out three replies to one. With reference to my opinions; whilst not perfectly informed [who, amongst us *is* perfect, after all?!?], are generally more than I can ever be bothered in responding to pettiness.

[eikichi-onizuka.livejournal.com]

Oh yes! It brings me (as well as other people) much hilarity and it's my best Trickyfish icon, so it isn't going anywhere. :)

[eponymous.livejournal.com]

Thank you, we appreciate that.

[mitajoey.livejournal.com]

Wow, I just read through all of these responses and I wanted to just commend you for keeping your cool. I think it was unfair of people to jump on you. You had a right to say what you felt and it was between you and Georgina and Pet. Clearly the three of you have made ammends or whatever and really no one should have interfered. Especially with the name-calling. That was un-called for. I totally agree with you on not joining a challenge if you've never written before or if you didn't have someone to read over what you wrote. I'd be too afraid of looking stupid, which is why I'd love to GET a story, but wouldn't want to ruin anyone's.

Sure its the thought that counts, but, really, specially consideration should be made before you get involved with something this huge.

On another note, what does YMMV mean? That totally lost me.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Wow, I just read through all of these responses

And I commend you for having the stomach and patience to do so. I had to walk away and cuddle my puppy a few times to keep from exploding.

and I wanted to just commend you for keeping your cool.

If I had any hope of people listening (not that they necessarily did anyway) that was the way to do it, no matter how snooty I wanted to be. It's cool, because while playing nice may not come naturally, it's a learned skill to survive in civilized society.

I think it was unfair of people to jump on you.

:) That's all. I think it was, too, but I don't get rights once I say something that pushes buttons, apparently.

I totally agree with you on not joining a challenge if you've never written before or if you didn't have someone to read over what you wrote. I'd be too afraid of looking stupid, which is why I'd love to GET a story, but wouldn't want to ruin anyone's.

Sigh. The mechanics of the piece were such a tertiary issue, and yet that's what people chose to highlight about my comments on it. I almost regret ever bringing it up, but the fact of the matter is it's true, and nothing a halfway decent word processor let alone a beta reader wouldn't have caught. The story being mediocre is one thing, and happens quite often - I can show you about seven WIPs of just that flavor on my own hard drive. And I'm not saying you shouldn't have participated, just maybe made sure to have someone else there to help if you felt you needed it. Because (and I know you've read this over and over, but) we were writing for another person. That should've merited serious consideration before headfirst diving. I'll take my own risks on my own time, but no one else should have to be subjected to it.

Sure its the thought that counts, but, really, specially consideration should be made before you get involved with something this huge.

I'm so glad someone finally had the (metaphorical all around, but the expression works) balls to own up to that besides myself. Because people whine about not getting the story they wanted or whatever, well, had there been even the loosest criteria or a fortright statement of the mission and consequences of this challenge in particular, people would've considered what was at hand here. I think at least the author I mentioned got something she outright didn't want versus didn't prefer, and applied just enough effort to submit something and nothing more (and like I've said, in this case at least, something less). And that wasn't right or fair to the person on the other end. She shouldn't have been willing to take the risk if she didn't intend to do her best regardless. Other challenges are different, and I keep trying to get people to see the recipient element here.

what does YMMV mean?

Your Mileage May Vary. Basically, to each his own.