I obviously have not been diligent in reading my Friends list

[aruan]

Because it wouldn't have been tonight's MTV News where I found out that Justin's going to tour with Christina Aguilera.

I can't decide if I'm intensely amused, morbidly curious, or deeply, profoundly, knot-in-my-belly excited.

Okay, maybe I know a little.

But there are elements of the rest, too. First concert all over again. It's gonna be a great time. Just hope I can recruit someone local to come along. Like, general admission crushed against the barricades come along.

Yeah. Like that.

However, breaking this news without tickets being on sale anywhere in sight? That's just wrong, man. I need tickets like, yesterday, seriously.


Also, Avril Lavigne? Don't foist your teeny pseudo-angst on me. I didn't do it when I was in middle school, and it's not more attractive on you as a high school sophomore, mmkay?

Comments

[giddyupnow.livejournal.com]

*snerk* Gads, I twitch at the mere mention of that Avril creature.

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

I endured less than two minutes of that heinous Barbara Walters special. She was climbing all over the chair and picking at her clothes and doing anything but looking at Walters while she talking like a spastic Valley girl monkey creature. Spastic and annoying and so utterly self-centered it's ridiculous. Most people weren't quite that insufferable at twelve, much less sixteen.

But yes. And yet. *sighs and walks away grumbling about the lousy taste of most people* We know where it's at though, and with that, I'm to happier pastures.

[giddyupnow.livejournal.com]

Right. And she also ruined what normally would have been a cute fashion aesthetic, as I can no longer look at a button down shirt or tie without wincing. And that kinda sucks. :-P

[http://users.livejournal.com/billy_/]

Hey, I like Avril. *hides*

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Her personality or her music? Matter of taste, to each his own, lalala, but seriously, because I keep thinking I'm missing something about her. After all, I managed to not get into *NSYNC until this past summer, so maybe a little education is in order...

Re:

[http://users.livejournal.com/billy_/]

(Go to sleep...so should I :))

Eh, I guess I differentiate music from the individual. I like Eminem, even though he's an ass. Same with Nirvana, Oasis (well, their early stuff), and so forth. I generally DON'T like teen pop stuff (boy bands, nor Britney, nor Aguilera), but I like Avril's stuff. It's catchy, and I dig the lyrics for the most part. I identify with them, even though her meaning in them (as a teen chick) is alot different than my own.

But I do think her personality's fine too. She's not a slut (yet), and seems to stay consistent with "who she is". I thought the Dateline interview was sincere and upfront (or SO fake that it came across as "real"...). I really don't have a reason to DISLIKE her (other than she's very rich and famous and has developed an annoying group of fans and is now way too media-hyped).

And man, I feel weird "defending" her. Shouldn't I have my cane and be listening to some Beatles stuff? :)

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

(Go to sleep...so should I :))

Ever have one of those nights when your body is ready to call it quits twice over but your brain won't let it? Yeah, I'm having my once a year bout of insomnia tonight, it seems.

I like Eminem, even though he's an ass.

By the accounts of everyone who's ever worked with him or knows him at all, he's shy, soft-spoken, and generous. *shrug* He talks about the Slim Shady thing as a persona, and there's a schizophrenic line somewhere in there, but this isn't even remotely related to your point.

I generally DON'T like teen pop stuff

We're not not not getting me into a debate about how my boys wrote more than half of their second and almost all of their third albums by themselves, not to mention that the songs demonstrate production (which was their doing as well) skills and melodic competence, and we're not mentioning their voices during the acapella moments or that they do it all while dancing their assess off, no we are not not not. We're also not mentioning how Aguilera writes her own stuff, too, nor that her latest album is a sincerely honest departure from the marketing they did to her first. We're *not* because I had the conversation the other night and an essay brewing about it now. I can appreciate not liking the music, but I have a real problem with most people who tend to dismiss it outright because it's been pigeonholed into some undeserved genre.

It's catchy, and I dig the lyrics for the most part.

And the luxury of our opinions is what makes this a great country. Personally, I think her lyrics are sophomoric and that detracts from what they could've been at the hands of a good collaborator, much like Justin's are too juvenilely spiteful. *shrug* But like you said, you get what she's singing about, and I can understand that definitely.

She's not a slut (yet),

Definition of a slut, please, and who in the business deserves less credit for their music because of it?

and seems to stay consistent with "who she is".

Aah, the record industry realizing that we're ready for reality, not glossy finishes. I think that that was a fad for my age bracket and they're still trying to cater to us as we make our way in the world on our own, not just our parents' money. That and in Avril, they finally found a polished-enough version of the traditionally stereotyped 'troublemaker' or 'slacker' type to draw a whole new genre into the pop rock scene. *shrug* I hate to be so cynical, but she's serving her purpose in being the vanilla Goth.

I thought the Dateline interview was sincere and upfront (or SO fake that it came across as "real"...).

I'm not saying it was insincere necessarily. It's not the environment to be interviewing her in. But trying to have a meaningful heart-to-heart with a barely sixteen-year-old when you're someone so radically outside her age bracket and sphere of experience, I think she looked uncomfortable and came off as pretentious and bratty because of that.

Done now, which is probably best.

[http://users.livejournal.com/billy_/]

Hmm didn't know a short seemingly innocent comment would lead to this :)

Will be my last reply on this, so will give you chance at last word :)

Something we both hit on which is key is perception and marketing. Is Eminem really sorta deranged or is that a marketing ploy? Is Britney Spears really a virgin or really a ho or neither? And is Avril really a "white Goth"? None of us really know. Everything any of us see is marketing and/or heresay. Hardly anyone knows music stars personally...so we don't know what they're REALLY like. It's all image and marketing and handling. ANY interview, the artist/group is prepped for. Nothing's truly natural really.

In one of my marketing classes, we watched a Nightline show mostly about Insane Clown Posse. About how they were this "outsider"/"rogue" band, whose fans were hardcore and hated The Man and society and everything else. They got so popular that they then signed a record deal and appeared on MTV, etc etc. So what's the reality? Who knows?

Re: "teen pop": I don't like the music, generally. It's not related to production or marketing or image. Soundwise, I generally don't like it, in a similar way to I dislike country and heavy metal. It could be fabulously done, but that doesn't mean I'll like it any better. Yes, there's songs by boy bands that I don't mind, and so forth. But generally not. I don't "dismiss" it for any other reason than I don't like the music.

It seems you value alot of things when you listen to music. Marketing, persona, and of course the music itself. I'm alot simpler...I look for stuff that makes me tap me head or gets stuck in my head or that I want to listen to again.

In the end, I (currently) like Avril, you don't. And (hopefully) we both respect the other's reasoning for that.

I'm done...for real this time...I'm serious...definitely

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Some of this is still vaguely on topic...

As far as seemingly innocent comments, that's something we all have to realize about dealing in a medium as vast as the Internet - even the slight distaste you may have for spinach can come back and bite you in the ass when the Leafy Green Enthusiasts' Society comes knocking on your door with a printed copy of your newgroup entry that was otherwise entirely about a different topic and demand just who you think you are, being too good for spinach, when that's not even the point of your statement that *does* have anything to do with their cause. It's pretty bizarre and a little scary how fast and dramatically things can spiral.

With that said, I had no intention to create an undertow here. I think I counterbalanced my comments decently, citing my own (itself much-bemoaned and belabored) genre of choice as demonstrative examples along with Avril.

Something we both hit on which is key is perception and marketing. Is Eminem really sorta deranged or is that a marketing ploy?

It's marketing so far as he can face the world that knows so much about his private life. A lot of it may actually be self-defense, which people have come to like and therefore became a part of the way he presents himself in the market arena.

Is Britney Spears really a virgin or really a ho or neither?

The facts as I know 'em - the whole virgin thing was cute when she and Justin had just gotten together, but I'm sure that was at least partially image/marketing, as the average fan of both acts is about five years younger than they themselves are. Whether that fan base is in itself a result of marketing (as Michelle Branch has a lot more twentysomething fans despite being nearly the same age as Britney) is another matter entirely, because we are where we are. But somewhere along the way she cheated on him and he broke up with her because of that. Most people don't know this and impose the 'ho' image on her because of the things she wears, not because of anything she's actually done that they know of. Personally, the girl worked her ass off for the body she has; she's young, she's popular, she is a sexual creature like every other twenty-year-old and has the assets to show off, so why not? Doesn't mean she hooks up with random strangers, just that she has every chance of being able to do so, should she choose, which by all accounts she does not (and you're just going to have to go with me on that, the network dedicated to keeping tabs on these kids is further-reaching than most media and so scary I want to crawl into a dark corner of my room with the covers pulled tight over my head). And I can't entirely believe that I'm defending Britney Spears, but here we are and for some reason, she's come to deserve a fair shake in the public eye. *shrug* That's my $0.02 and change on the matter.

And is Avril really a "white Goth"?

Uhm, that wasn't what I meant by 'vanilla' at all. Vanilla the way I use it as an adjective is very much like the ice cream flavor - plain, nonthreatening, earnest to a flaw. Just wanted to clear that up.

Continued...

[gjstruthseeker.livejournal.com]

Everything any of us see is marketing and/or heresay.

You're right, most information that actually makes it down to us has been filtered through censors, the opinions of the observers tainting it inherently even before that, then hyped enough to make it worthy of Access Hollywood coverage. But it's gotta work out somehow that there's a kernel of truth when every report says Eminem cursed out this person or that cause, when the boys of *NSYNC are involved with one social cause after another, etc. Call me naive and perhaps rightfully so, but I like to think that underneath all the marketing, there's truth in the people saying the words, and you have to pay attention to what they say and how and when. I like to think there's a derivative verity beneath the muck they heap on them in every way, from the clothes they wear to the words they say.

It's all image and marketing and handling. ANY interview, the artist/group is prepped for. Nothing's truly natural really.

I think there's only so much that you can foist on someone before their entire persona becomes inorganic, and people can sense that. There are baseline truths, and that's why the process of becoming famous doesn't just depend on talent but your ability to play the game. They knew what they were getting with Eminem and ICP from the beginning. They knew what they were doing with *NSYNC and Britney at some point, things that have largely been outgrown or cast aside since. I think being successful allows a certain leeway with what the artist chooses to project about themselves, something I think Avril will never need because she is just as they want her organically. This isn't to dimish her, I'm just stating my opinion.

In one of my marketing classes, we watched a Nightline show mostly about Insane Clown Posse. About how they were this "outsider"/"rogue" band, whose fans were hardcore and hated The Man and society and everything else. They got so popular that they then signed a record deal and appeared on MTV...

The problem there lies with the way our society is structured, that no matter how much you hate it or object to its methods, you have to use the system (and be perceived as letting the system use you) to get anywhere, even if that means to a position that would allow you to change the infrastructure. It's not ICP's fault that they wanted to reach more people and went about it the surest way. It's that much more poignant that, by all accounts, they still did just as they pleased even under the umbrella protection and distribution network of a record label.

Re: "teen pop": I don't like the music, generally.

Fair enough. I don't much like heavy metal or country either, and it's not by virtue of a lack of talent for the genre evident in its performers. Far from it, I'm sure that in niche genres like that you've gotta be even better than the wholesale marketing machine built around alternative rock/pop.

It seems you value alot of things when you listen to music.

*smiles* I didn't really, until now. I don't listen to music because I think the lead singer is cute, never have. I have no idea what the bandmembers of Third Eye Blind or Fatboy Slim looks like, and I love them all the same. *NSYNC has an entire subculture unto its fandom, something I did not know before tumbling headlong into it. I mean, I knew that the boys were purportedly attractive, but seriously, I could maybe name Justin before my friends worked me over. The popslash thing happened when I'd "gotten to know" and began to like the boys. It's

I'm alot simpler...I look for stuff that makes me tap me head or gets stuck in my head or that I want to listen to again.

And who doesn't? We went through a holier than most stage where it's all about the lyrics, man, but mostly, music is what makes us tap our pencils and hum under our breaths, stay in our heads or spring to our tongues. It's grand.

And (hopefully) we both respect the other's reasoning for that.

I hope I didn't come off as disrespectful of your point of view. My comments were about Avril and my opinions as far as what I think she brings to the scene. You don't agree. We can all remain civilized human beings and scream to whatever makes us happy in our cars.

[giddyupnow.livejournal.com]

Huh. Here's the thing... (and I dread to dive into this, seeing the posts that are going on below, but...)

We gave Avril a chance, we really did. Like, we thought she was cute at first and the songs were kinda catchy. But then some of the lyrics started coming off as obnoxious, she started just being a very unlikeable personality, and we noticed how much they sweetened her voice on the singles as opposed to when she's live. I'm just not very impressed with her as an artist, and find her 'persona' (which I really hope is what it is, because I'd like to think she has better sense as an individual) hypocritical, immature and annoying. And when you lose respect for somebody, that's really the end of it.

If we want to take the example of other individuals who might be classified into that whole "bristly white people" subsection, I guess I'd have to point out that we *do* like Eminem, despite his... politics. Because he's a good performer, he's got talent, and he's got presence. That's the difference.